Curse

Zinger314 · Oct 02, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

We know that we'll be able to have up to 3 Heroes in a party, will accept runes, can use any skills and secondary profession, and can be Assassins and/or Ritualists.

Hero builds in PvE can make or break a team. How will you organize your Hero team?

Playable Character (PC): Necromancer (Minion Master)

16 Death
13 Soul Reaping

Rotting Flesh
Taste of Death
Taste of Pain
Signet of Lost Souls
Blood of the Master
Order of Undeath (e)
Animate Bone Fiend
Res Signet

It's a standard MM build utilizing the new Elite, Order of Undeath, plus many self-heals to substantiate the massive life-loss.

Hero 1: Paragon ("Go For The Freaking Eyes!")

16 Command
10 Leadership
9 Spear Mastery
5 Tactics

"Go For The Eyes!"
"Watch Yourself!"
"Never Surrender!"
"Stand Your Ground!"
Vicious Attack
"For Great Justice!"
Soldier's Fury (e)
Res Signet

"GftE," plus massive Adrenal gain, results in massive critical hits by Minions and a certain other Hero...

Hero 2: Assassin/Ranger (Quick Disruption)

16 Critical Strikes
13 Marksmanship

Quick Shot (e)
Called Shot
Disrupting Accuracy
Critical Eye
Sharpen Daggers
Res Signet
(intentionally empty)
(intentionally empty)

I'm normally against using non-primary professions for another profession's skills, but in this case, it's worth it. Disrupting Accuracy + Quick Shot (or Called Shot when it's available) is the best interrupting power available. With Critical Eye, 16 Critical Strikes, and 13 Marksmanship, the Assassin about a base 40% chance of critical/interruption. "GftE" pushes that into guranteed criticals. Sweet Damage and constant interruption is incredibly powerful.

And yes, I left 2 slots empty. I don't want him to use skills he shouldn't.

Hero 3: Necromancer (SS)

16 Curses
13 Soul Reaping

Spiteful Spirit (e)
Desecrate Enchantments
Defile Enchantments
Enfeeble
Barbs
Reckless Haste
Signet of Lost Souls
Res Signet

Standard Spiteful Spirit build (with the exception of Barbs, which helps the MM). Spiteful Spirit builds deal lots of AoE damage, can't complain about that. Desecrate/Defile Enchantments is also quite fun against Dervish.

Heroes can be strong alone, but a group of heroes with synergy is even more powerful. How will you make YOUR Heroes?

gamecube187 · Oct 03, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

When and where was it stated that there will be assassin and ritualist heros? I am yet to see anyone confirm this with "official" words of confromation, and untill then I can only hope....

Oh, and I'm not going to decide on any builds for my heros untill I see how their AI has them use the skills...Untill then, I can only hope my current favorite builds work on them....

EDIT

Oh, thank you, TadaceAce, for the link. Too bad it doesn't say anything about a rit hero...I guess I just have to hope...

TadaceAce · Oct 03, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Me P/W 8+4 Leader, 12+1 spear 10+1 command
(I'm cool)
Anthem of Flame
Go For the Eyes!
Watch Yourself
Lightning Javelin
Cruel Spear
Blazing Finale
Rez Sig
Aggressive Refrain

Mo/Me 16 DF 13 heal
(I can heal forever, look at me go)
Kiss
Healing Whisper
Comforting
Orison
Eth Light
Healers Covenant
Holy Haste
Renew Life

D/P 16 scythe 10 motivation 8 command
(I do AE damage)
Wearying Strike
Penitent Strike
Reapers Sweep
Go For the Eyes!
Purifying Finale
Energizing Finale
Stand Your Ground!
Aggressive Refrain

R/P
16 marks 11expertise 8 command
(Aggressive Refrain is fun, so is magebane shot on a hench interuptor)
Aggressive Refrain
Magebane Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Read the Wind
Rez Sig
Go For the Eyes!
Keen Arrow

I kinda regret posting these cause I can see them nerfing some skills...

TadaceAce · Oct 03, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

When and where was it stated that there will be assassin and ritualist heros? I am yet to see anyone confirm this with "official" words of confromation, and untill then I can only hope....

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Hero

Keep the builds simple and you won't have to worry about their AI.

Zinger314 · Oct 03, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Damn, Tadace...that build is...sexy. I love your use of rapid "GftE" Spamming. (As a suggestion, replace Anthem of Flame with "They're on Fire!". Blazing Finale will be doing enough Burning with all that spamming, you might as well get massive burn protection)

I might make my own version of that build, with a Necromancer instead of a Monk. (Two Words: Dark Fury. Although I might prefer Anthem for Flame for the AI Paragon...)

TadaceAce · Oct 03, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Anthem of Flame is there because its 5 energy with a 10 second recharge so I can maintain mine, the dervishes, and the rangers aggressive refrain between fights. That and it should work well with triple chop / cyclone axe. Since triple chop and anthem are both 10 second recharge I could possibly drop cyclone axe for They're On Fire! The only problem with that is the ones that need protection are the casters, while I'm gonna be on the front line so the people by me will be burning.

Oh yeah and Zinger, I'm fairly certain that minions, like pets, don't crit.

Ensign · Oct 03, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Pets and minions both crit. A critical for either one adds 41% damage to the hit. The only difference between minion/pet crits and player crits, is that their crits are not automatically max damage.

Peace,
-CxE

Nevin · Oct 03, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Playable Character (Me): Hunter/Barrage
R/?
15 Marksmanship
13 Expertise
9 Wilderness Sruvival

Distracting Shot
Hunters Shot
Splinter Shot
Apply Poison
Barrage {E}
Favorable Winds
Troll Ungeunt
Res Signet

Hero 1: Minion Master
N/?
16 Death
10 Soul Reaping
10 Blood Magic

Animate Bone Horror
Animate Bone Minions
Taste of Death
Death Nova/Jagged Bones {E}
Blood of the Master
Infuse Condition
Dark Bond
Res Signet

Hero 2: Earth Shaker
W/?
15 Hammer Mastery
9 Strength
12 Tactics

Renewing Smash
Yeti Smash
Crude Swing
Earth Shaker {E}
Watch Yourself!
Soldier's Defense
Healing Signet
Ressurection Signet

Hero 3: Degen Mesmer
Me/E
15 Illusion Magic
12 Inspiration
9 Fast Casting

Images of Remorse
Conjur Phantasm
Fevered Dreams {E}
Accumulated Pain
Power Drain
Ether Feast
Distortion
Res Signet

Ninna · Oct 03, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

you can have good build but the AI can be tempermental for *how* it uses that build

as this thread notes

HERO builds and the AI, how did it respond?
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10051117

Zinger314 · Oct 03, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

If ArnetNerf nerfs anything in the build, it'll be "GftE," which admittingly is overpowered. (They'll give it a...5 sec cooldown.)

Thanks, Ensign. Although I'm dissappointed by the non-max damage....

Paperfly · Oct 03, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

I'm going to keep things straightforward. Two Boon Prots for the backline are going to end up standard (I'll fiddle with a BLight, but I'm happy with the Boons after the weekend's testing), and the third slot automatically goes to the Necromancer. It is the most powerful class in PvE, after all.

Now, after some consideration I've decided to pass on an MM. Not because they don't work - the E/N MM I tried over the weekend was great! - but because they dictate the pace the party moves at a little too strongly, and when I'm henching I'd rather take my time. Also, corpse use makes them less PUG-friendly.

...So we go with the second best mass damage archetype in the game. Spiteful Spirit, huzzah! Toss in some shutdown from the Curses line (e.g. Enfeeble) and we've got half a bar.

No point force-feeding him Arcane Echo - he's only going to echo the right skill a small percentage of the time if left to his own devices, and I have no intention of babysitting - so that means there's a free secondary and two-three skill slots to fill.

The easy way out is Blood. Now, I'll definitely enlist Blood Ritual for my Elementalist to help top up between battles quicker, but for the other characters it's not really necessary... And the other utility Blood can provide is superceded by other options.

Earth Magic (not Prayers!)? Ward Against Melee and Earthquake are good fun, but they work fine on regular henchies (assuming we get an Earth mage again) so there's no need to waste the slot on a hero.

/P comes with some handy utility to support my melee characters. I provisionally like Command over Motivation...

The final option - and the one I think I'll end up with as a default - is to throw on a couple of /Me interrupts. Web of Disruption plus Cry of Frustration plus Shame should work quite nicely with that perfect AI timing!

Kais Unduli · Oct 03, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

I figure every character of mine will have an outfitted Monk, possibly Blessed Light or a simple WoH monk will suffice. After that, not really sure which heroes I'll be taking. An SS or MM necro would definitely be a great help, as would a nuker hero that doesn't use Firestorm like it's the greatest fire skill ever.

Come to think of it, those will be the 3 heroes I use. Excellent.

Ole Man Bourbon · Oct 03, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I'm gonna be bringing lots of Mesmer interrupts (not necessarily on Mesmers).

SS will obviously be awesome, since you don't need to cover hexes in PvE really. Enfeebling Blood, Blinding Flash, etc will be very good. If you set up Koss not to use a bunch of adrenal skills then something like Blackout/Distracting Blow on him could be nice.

TadaceAce · Oct 03, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Pets and minions both crit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Animal_companion

A pet's damage is relative to the amount of attribute points invested in its owner's Beast Mastery attribute, with diminishing returns for rank greater than the owner's Level/2 +2. Pets attack roughly once every 2.15 seconds and cannot inflict critical hits. A level 20 Elder pet does 17-41 damage per hit against an AL 60 target with 12 points invested in Beast Mastery.

Minion page says nothing about crits so I can't prove that.
A MM would be very cool to have but I have doubts how the AI can handle it.
What if your hero monks heal the minions like Danika and Mhenlo and stuff do.

Eclair · Oct 03, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Don't have the exact builds yet but basically something like the following:

Me: R/P
Hero1: R/P
Hero2: R/P
Hero3: R/P

I'm really curious as to how well that'd work in PvE

Should be interestiing^^

TadaceAce · Oct 04, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

You only get 1 of each class of hero with rare exceptions (monk) and by the looks of it 2 more, I doubt you will get a second paragon let alone 3 of them.

R/P is a good build though.

Ok their are 2 monks and 2 eles known and 3 more mystery heroes. I'd bet my life on one of the mystery being another war.

kazjun · Oct 04, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

I'm not so sure about having heroes use SS. A human would curse a target not under focus fire and then the echo on someone else on the other side.
The AI will probably only curse the target you're attacking so you'd have to switch focus to a different target manually each time to lay down more than one SS, and to have them last longer. Else they'll lay it on the monster the party's focus firing on, it dies and your SS lasts like 5 secs...

Ensign · Oct 04, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Animal_companion

A pet's damage is relative to the amount of attribute points invested in its owner's Beast Mastery attribute, with diminishing returns for rank greater than the owner's Level/2 +2. Pets attack roughly once every 2.15 seconds and cannot inflict critical hits. A level 20 Elder pet does 17-41 damage per hit against an AL 60 target with 12 points invested in Beast Mastery.

Guildwiki is wrong.

Peace,
-CxE

The truth itself · Oct 04, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

How did your assassin/ranger get 13 points in marksmanship?

Paperfly · Oct 04, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

I'm not so sure about having heroes use SS. A human would curse a target not under focus fire and then the echo on someone else on the other side.

The AI's been reasonably good about not just using interrupts - for instance - on the called target, so there's still a possibility that it'll know to spread the SS around.

...At worst, they'll kill your primary target very quickly while still doing some splash damage. Which isn't that bad a problem to have.